Generated Transcript

[00:00:15] David Hornik
Hello and welcome to VentureCast. I am David Hornik of August Capital.

[00:00:21] Howard Hartbaum
And this is Howard Hartbaum of August Capital.

[00:00:23] David Hornik
I’m sorry, Howard, I can’t hear you. What was that?

[00:00:25] Howard Hartbaum
I said, this is Howard Hartenbaum of August Capital.

[00:00:29] David Hornik
Howard and I were just before we started, Howard was just saying that we were. He and I were on a conference call with an entrepreneur earlier, and he said that his voice was so loud it was hurting his own head, which I hate.

[00:00:41] Howard Hartbaum
People whose voices project so much, it’s, like, irritating. But that’s me.

[00:00:46] David Hornik
That is a shame.

[00:00:46] Howard Hartbaum
I hate myself.

[00:00:47] David Hornik
What about. I actually am super loud on cell phones. Are you one of those people?

[00:00:53] Howard Hartbaum
Well, that was on the phone. That was a problem.

[00:00:54] David Hornik
Yeah, we were on a speakerphone.

[00:00:55] Howard Hartbaum
I started, like, going really loud. And sometimes you’re, like, in the airport and there’s some ass walking by, like, yell, I hate that. And you just want to poke your pen into his gut.

[00:01:05] David Hornik
Or when you’re on it, you get onto the airplane, right? And then you’re sitting there and someone you know before you take off and they’re having this big, long conversation, it’s like, what, are you joking?

[00:01:15] Howard Hartbaum
What I want to do, I want to lean over so that the other person can hear and say, can you pass the toilet paper, please?

[00:01:22] David Hornik
I was once on a train. This was on the Long island railroad heading home from a long day of work. And everybody was tired. And some guy was on. This is the early days of cell phones. And some guy was on his cell phone and he hu up after a long conversation. Then he went to turn. When he went to dial again, and the guy next to me said, are we gonna go all drive all the way home in your office? And the guy stopped dialing. And then.

[00:01:49] Howard Hartbaum
Well, you go in there. I mean, I’ve been in the restroom where a guy was, like, on the toilet. And then you hear him going. Talking and talking. Excuse me. Wait, I’m sorry. It’s really noisy in here. I gotta put on hold for a moment. Okay, I’m back. And I’m just like.

[00:02:04] David Hornik
That’s just wrong.

[00:02:05] Howard Hartbaum
That’s just wrong.

[00:02:06] David Hornik
That’s when you, like, try and flush before.

[00:02:08] Howard Hartbaum
No, so what I did is every time you started talking, I started flushing. Anyway.

[00:02:14] David Hornik
That’s just mean. Spirit empowered already.

[00:02:15] Howard Hartbaum
Potty Talk.

[00:02:17] David Hornik
That’s right.

[00:02:17] Howard Hartbaum
60 seconds in and we got nothing but potty talk.

[00:02:20] David Hornik
I was having breakfast with Reid Hoffman this morning, and Reid and I. So there’s a kind of Silicon Valley in Cambridge, England program that reads, helps plan. And I’m gonna, I’m gonna go out there in November or something. And so he. Apparently they do a debate like one of these good old fashioned British in the debating commons kind of debates, right? And he said, so you’re gonna participate in this debate? And I said only if I get to be in charge of jokes and sexual innuendo. I can’t, I can’t be in charge of facts. I can’t be in charge of like, you know, whatever. But if it’s about jokes, then I’m fine. So it’s unclear actually whether I’ve been allowed to be on his debating team.

[00:03:01] Howard Hartbaum
Can I hold the beeper? So if you’re like recording anytime somebody swears.

[00:03:06] David Hornik
That would be a problem.

[00:03:09] Howard Hartbaum
Well, if you’re talking.

[00:03:11] David Hornik
So here’s. This is an interesting fact actually. So you’ve been reading all this business about Steve Jobs has decided like the, the reason that you can’t have booby apps or whatever on the iPhone and the iPad is that he wants to make the web safe, you know, safe for America.

[00:03:29] Howard Hartbaum
That’s because he has children.

[00:03:31] David Hornik
Uh huh. I mean, yeah, right.

[00:03:33] Howard Hartbaum
It’s like that’s his phase in life. And the kids get older, he won’t care again.

[00:03:36] David Hornik
I don’t know if he. Maybe it’s marketing, I don’t know. But anyway, but he, but this is his thing, right? He’s gonna, so, so he said, oh, you can’t have these apps or whatever. And then, and then simultaneously he’s having this big fight with, with Flash about. Oh, I’m, you know, we’re about HTML5. It’s not about where. Screw Flash. Right, Whatever. And what I think is really ironic is that what he has done, what he has driven is that all of the porno sites have moved to HTML5.

[00:04:13] Howard Hartbaum
I hadn’t thought about that.

[00:04:14] David Hornik
Yes. He’s driven the adoption of him, which you know, to his power, the man has enough clout to affect a complete technology change that has a big impact. Meanwhile, the, you know that what, what are called the tube sites, whatever Porno tube and you.

[00:04:29] Howard Hartbaum
Porn.

[00:04:30] David Hornik
Red, red tube and green tube and whatever they are, I’ve never heard of them of course are re encoding all of all of their video to work on the iPad because you know, it’s such a pretty screen. So nice.

[00:04:45] Howard Hartbaum
You’re gonna have to have those little privacy screens for that so that when you’re sitting on the plane, the guy next to you can’t see what you’re watching.

[00:04:53] David Hornik
I get so embarrassed watching any movie where suddenly there’s a Sex scene. You’re watching an R rated movie on the plane and you’re. And there’s a sex scene.

[00:04:59] Howard Hartbaum
80 year old woman reading a Bible next to you.

[00:05:01] David Hornik
Yes. Sitting next to you or walking down the. Have you ever walked down the aisle and looked at the things that people are watching? It’s really entertaining, actually. Like someone’s watching a cartoon and the next person’s watching some horror film and the next person’s watching a porn film. And that may be a stretch, I think. No one’s quite that crazy.

[00:05:18] Howard Hartbaum
Soft porn, maybe.

[00:05:20] David Hornik
I don’t even know what that is anymore. That’s like an R rated movie.

[00:05:24] Howard Hartbaum
They don’t show any nipples. I guess something like that.

[00:05:27] David Hornik
That’s called G rated.

[00:05:29] Howard Hartbaum
Oh, sorry.

[00:05:30] David Hornik
I think, I don’t know. So I wrote this post about the iPad for Venture Blog.

[00:05:36] Howard Hartbaum
I’ve stopped traveling with my iPad. Like, I’m sorry. I stopped traveling with my notebook. Like, now I’m traveling and I just take the iPad. I mean, who needs a notebook?

[00:05:43] David Hornik
I was gonna say that’s weird.

[00:05:44] Howard Hartbaum
I’m not gonna buy a notebook anymore.

[00:05:46] David Hornik
No, notebook’s ridiculous.

[00:05:48] Howard Hartbaum
So if you’re heavy and they’re. They’re ugly and they’ve got all this extra stuff, you don’t need like a keypad.

[00:05:53] David Hornik
Yeah. It just depends on what you’re gonna get done. Right? I actually watch movies.

[00:05:57] Howard Hartbaum
I had play games like Flight Controller, so.

[00:05:59] David Hornik
Right, we’ll get to that. Howard claims. What do you. What do you claim is your high score in flight controller?

[00:06:05] Howard Hartbaum
223.

[00:06:06] David Hornik
223. Does anyone believe that? I don’t believe that. I don’t. Yeah, bring it in. Because I don’t believe it for a second because I’m like at 84.

[00:06:14] Howard Hartbaum
I’ll demo you right now while we do this show.

[00:06:17] David Hornik
Yeah, you play it. Here’s the iPad. I’m gonna pull it up because I honestly don’t believe him. And actually after the show, because after the show I’m. You just start playing. I’m gonna. This is gonna be a test of Howard to see what kind of skill he has to multitask playing. You know, Notice already he’s not even speaking because he’s trying to get it set up. But anyway.

[00:06:37] Howard Hartbaum
Well, that’s because you have the HD version and I have the regular version.

[00:06:39] David Hornik
Yeah, the regular version’s wussy. Do the. Do the one that has the four runways. Anyone who doesn’t know what we’re talking about. Flight Controller is an awesome game on the iPad where you have to lay you have to set the flight path of planes, and they might crash into each other. And it’s really good. Are you already playing? But not even. You’re not even paying attention.

[00:06:56] Howard Hartbaum
Okay.

[00:06:57] David Hornik
Sorry that. I don’t think this is gonna work. I don’t think it’s gonna work because you can’t.

[00:07:00] Howard Hartbaum
You.

[00:07:00] David Hornik
You’re incapable of multitasking.

[00:07:02] Howard Hartbaum
I know. As we all are.

[00:07:04] David Hornik
No, no. I’m a genius multitasker.

[00:07:06] Howard Hartbaum
I was driving back to the office today, and this woman got within. Of course, got within 6 inches of sideswiping me. And I’m looking at her, and I see her drop her cell phone after she swerved away to hit me.

[00:07:18] David Hornik
And then she. Almost again.

[00:07:20] Howard Hartbaum
No. Trying to find her cell phone because she was in the middle of a phone call. I’m like, it’s bad enough you’re talking on the phone. Now you’re dropping it and hunting, like, under the seat. Like, her head was disappearing and she’s digging under the seat.

[00:07:29] David Hornik
So I don’t know if you’ve ever seen this. This was amazing. Last night, I was driving back from the city in front of me. I watched a car pulling into another lane. And then they looked and there was a car in the lane. And so they jammed their steering wheel back to pull back into the other lane and lost control of the car. And so I was watching as they, like, swerved back into their lane and then pulled the steering wheel because it was roving until. But usually you, like, go back and forth and get back to curl. No, the car spun out on the highway. I watched it. As I see this, I start pulling, you know, slowing down and pulling away. And then I watched the car, like, go see left side, right side, left side, then spin out and then head off of the highway. And they got incredibly lucky because no one was behind them. And they. And they didn’t hit a. Hit a wall or anything. There was sort of enough.

[00:08:17] Howard Hartbaum
Did they maintain their cell phone conversation the whole time?

[00:08:20] David Hornik
I mean, they had to. It was just crazy. It was amazing. I mean, it was amazing.

[00:08:25] Howard Hartbaum
They’ll never talk on their cell phone again when they’re driving.

[00:08:27] David Hornik
That’s what my wife said. Oh, did they pull back out? I’m like, after that, I can’t imagine they’d be driving for 20 minutes or something. All right, but we digress back to. Back to. I wrote this piece for Venture Blog, by the way. There’s a new Venture Blog. It’s still venture blog. Ventureblog.com But I used to be on Movable Type which was the server version of six apart software. And I’ve moved on to their service type pad so my things all now hosted much easier. It’s much better. It’s so much better. Now you like instantly I have like buttons for Facebook. So you can like my post and you can share it on Twitter and you can follow me on Twitter and you can do all this cool stuff. Of course, the second I published it, I published a new article and it was the new rollout of the new design. And I get an email from my father. The email from my father says your mother will send you an email with typos shortly. So he was going to skip like telling me all the things I had missed, the mistakes in my post because he had a more important subject. But I just want to talk about your new design because who did that design? The text is, is gray. It’s not black and it’s insufficiently contrasted from the background. And you need to fix that. You know, he’s a. He’s a web designer. So he was like, I don’t like your new design and here are my.

[00:09:50] Howard Hartbaum
Here. When you every. You’re used to something and then somebody changes it, it’s never happen happiness.

[00:09:55] David Hornik
It’s like, that’s an interesting question.

[00:09:58] Howard Hartbaum
My wife comes home with a new haircut and it’s like, whoa. She’s like, do you like it? I’m like, I’m getting used to it.

[00:10:05] David Hornik
See, I. I mean. Yes. Yeah. Right.

[00:10:08] Howard Hartbaum
I love it.

[00:10:09] David Hornik
You gotta work on that. No, this was. I don’t think actually this was very much the. My professional opinion is that if you’re gonna do text and it’s very. It’s kind of like a typewritery thing now. So it’s like, just get the nice contrasty text. Don’t go with like a grayscale against white because you know, it’s not that readable. And frankly.

[00:10:28] Howard Hartbaum
The post was about the iPad.

[00:10:29] David Hornik
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. But I’m talking about the design of Venture Blog. This stuff matters. Here’s another example I was just showing. I was just on a walk. A walk. The Dish. So those of you listening who are not from the Stanford area, there’s a thing called the Dish, which is basically this like big loop that you can walk in the foothills. And it’s a great, it’s a great place to go walking. And so I took the. Took this long loop with Rene Lacert who’s the CEO of Bill.com and we were talking about usability and I said, hey, have you seen the new united.com because it’s a really interesting contrast in the old and the new. And he said, no, I haven’t seen it. And so when we got back to finish up with the walk, I pulled up my iPad from my car because I have iPad3G that’s sitting there. And I pulled up their new homepage. And the new homepage, when you log in as a, as a, a member of whatever United and frequent flyer program, pulls up this completely new, very modern looking page. It’s way more readable, it’s way more functional, whatever. And then the second you click on anything, it takes you back to their 1992 version or whatever, 1998 version, which looks like junk. Yeah, so that matters. But anyway, all right, so back to the iPad, which seems to be reappearing. First, we travel with it. This one sits in my car so I can show Renee after the walk. Whatever.

[00:11:52] Howard Hartbaum
Make me prove to you I can play this stupid video game.

[00:11:54] David Hornik
I don’t believe you. Whatever. Take a screenshot. So my post was called something like iPad in the boardroom. And I basically was saying, look there. Have you noticed that every time you go to a board meeting now there are a bunch of people with iPads?

[00:12:11] Howard Hartbaum
Yeah. I was telling you, the last board meeting I went to, there was a guy with an iPad running the Bloomberg app. And he paid no attention to the entire board meeting. He was watching the stock tickers the entire time. And it was a particularly bad day on the stock market. People would like, ask him a question. He’d be like, what? What?

[00:12:26] David Hornik
Okay, so this is so. So my post was saying, like, this is a great thing. The iPad’s a really good device for board meetings because it’s. Because unlike a laptop, where there’s kind of this barrier between you and other people, it sits flat on the table. And you don’t have no more printing up decks because if you create a PDF, it looks beautiful on the iPad, so you can just run through it, whatever. And then I had two different entrepreneurs comment on the post. One commented on my, on my Facebook. The other one commented on Venture blog Glenn Kelman, who I think is a great entrepreneur. If you don’t, if you haven’t, you should read his blogging because he’s really smart guy has like, this is like pre sucking up. But you know, Glenn’s. He’s a very solid smart entrepreneur. And his comment on my post was, get these iPads out of my boardroom. Why don’t you frickin pay attention? Basically, like VCs are just using these things to not pay attention to the board meeting. And frankly, they should be banned. And meanwhile, I was looking at, I got, I get Josh Koppelman’s Twitter feed and he had posted a link to someone’s write up about board meetings. Oh, here’s what you should do for board meetings. And it was different. Like the 10 rules of board meetings. And his rule number three was ban all cell phones. So he said ban iPads. Ban cell phones. Just focus on the board meeting. I think it’s a reasonable complaint. So. Which isn’t to say I’m not bringing my iPad to the board meetings. I am.

[00:13:52] Howard Hartbaum
But yeah, I always, I don’t bring my iPad, at least not yet. But every now and then my iPhone calls to me.

[00:14:01] David Hornik
It’s not actually a call, it just calls out.

[00:14:03] Howard Hartbaum
It just calls out. So I’ve been putting it in airplane mode now and then it’s.

[00:14:07] David Hornik
That’s a good idea.

[00:14:08] Howard Hartbaum
Slows me down a little bit.

[00:14:09] David Hornik
Yeah, but it doesn’t. Yeah. So this is the problem, right. If the iPad sitting in front of you, then you kind of. Oh, well, let me just quickly check email. And then. So I do think so. I think it’s total fair. Totally fair. So I, I appreciate the complaint, but on the other hand, there are things about it that are really nice to have with you. You can look stuff up. Like, you know, I’ve been bringing it also into our partner meeting occasion. We occasionally pull up data and whatever else.

[00:14:37] Howard Hartbaum
Flight controller.

[00:14:37] David Hornik
I do not play flight controller, but I have been known to check email. Is it, have you noticed, has it been like, have you said, like, put it away?

[00:14:44] Howard Hartbaum
That’s not bad.

[00:14:45] David Hornik
Because if it’s bad, I’ll put it away.

[00:14:47] Howard Hartbaum
I mean, no, I mean, you can tell in a partner meeting when like one or two guys whip out their, their iPads, it’s because one of the other partners won’t shut up.

[00:14:55] David Hornik
So it’s just an indicator.

[00:14:57] Howard Hartbaum
It’s an indicator of something else. So it’s not the person who doing the iPad at fault, it’s the person. If you’re not interesting enough to keep everybody’s attention, maybe you shouldn’t be talking anymore.

[00:15:07] David Hornik
There you go. So we’re going to use the, the iPad as indicator of shut up already.

[00:15:12] Howard Hartbaum
And maybe if the board meeting was so shutting and the company was doing really well, the iPhones wouldn’t come back or really poorly.

[00:15:19] David Hornik
It’s one or the other, right? No, I mean, I think, look, I think it’s a tricky thing. I think people should. The whole Point of the board meeting is to sort of focus on the business and try and make progress and whatever else. And so if you’re there, you might as well engage in the meeting. On the other hand, if a meeting can be two hours and it turns out it’s four, then that’s also a management problem.

[00:15:42] Howard Hartbaum
What are your thoughts about board meeting length?

[00:15:45] David Hornik
I think that the vast majority of them should kind of be two hours worth of board meeting. And then every so often you’re talking about the new plan or a strategy or whatever and then maybe it’s a half a day kind of thing.

[00:15:57] Howard Hartbaum
I’ve been kind of come to the conclusion that the longer the board meeting, the worse the company is doing. So if you have a company that’s doing really well, basically all the important stuff is done in like 45 minutes to an hour. And then you talk for about an hour about planning or strategy or whatever it may be. But any board meeting where you’re like in the third hour and you’re still going through the deck, companies going under.

[00:16:19] David Hornik
What that means going under, I think.

[00:16:22] Howard Hartbaum
That means that the management doesn’t have a good grasp of everything that’s going. I mean we’re not talking about something as complex as running a Microsoft here. We’re talking about an early stage company with a million bucks in revenue and they’re still, you know, talking about what the str, you know, what the plan is, how we’re going to sell something. Like well, you sell it by collecting money from a customer.

[00:16:41] David Hornik
Yeah, no, I agree that ultimately looks there are a set of things that are, you know, there’s set of issues. If there’s something you want to talk about, pick that thing, focus on it. And operationally you don’t need to hear everything that’s happening in the company, particularly if it’s sort of doing, if the things are progressing or whatever. So I had a board meeting earlier this week where actually we had a very interesting conversation about sales channel and all that stuff. And you know, we were in the New York office of the company where the sales team focus. So it was good, we had a bunch of sales. But then, you know, at the end of kind of two hours of sales, we’d cut into the time to talk about the fact that the company was revising its plan. And there were two sentences. Oh, we’re, we’re revising our plan up. We’ll make more money this year. That’s sort of your point, right? Like if it was I’m revising my plan down, then you have two more hours. If it’s. I’m revising my plan. Up you go. Hey, keep up the good work.

[00:17:34] Howard Hartbaum
That’s what I call a good board meeting.

[00:17:35] David Hornik
Yeah, that’s a good board meeting. You go. Oh, man. Thanks for that. See you next month, right?

[00:17:41] Howard Hartbaum
Yeah.

[00:17:42] David Hornik
I don’t know. It’s kind of. So it’s. But on the other hand, it’s tricky. Tricky to build a real business. These things are hard.

[00:17:52] Howard Hartbaum
I had breakfast with Craig Sherman from Gaia Online this morning. He’s a really great guy, and one thing I like about him is he. He admits, unlike many businessmen, you know, entrepreneurs and venture capitalists included, that luck is a huge driver and timing and all these things that happen. Like, all these companies we work with have smart people in them. All of them work really hard and are highly motivated and they have dreams and they hire good people, but only a few of them are really successful. And I think there’s just this little dose of luck in there. And I. And, you know, a lot of guys say, you know, luck matters, but you make your own luck. And there’s always some qualifier, you know, But Craig is just kind of like, you know, I know timing is a huge thing. Like, if you’re in a certain space, when that space is hot, then you sell for $800 million, and two years later, when you go to sell that very same company and somebody. You’ll be lucky if you get $40 million. And it’s. It’s just a totally different thing with timing and lock and all those types of. Of things. So.

[00:18:56] David Hornik
Well, you know, it’s funny. So we haven’t yet seen the price, but they just announced the acquisition of Tapulous.

[00:19:03] Howard Hartbaum
Yeah. Congratulations, Bart.

[00:19:04] David Hornik
So. So Bart and crew, nicely done. You’re now part of Disney. And I was reading that Bart’s gonna be made kind of VP or SVP of online experience, and he’s gonna add a bunch of social. And social gaminess to the. Gaminess is like the gross taste in a meat. So I don’t mean it that way, but, man, that’s a little gamey. But Bart’s. You know, Bart’s gonna go and kind of add some of that to the. To the Disney World. And that’s pretty interesting. And it’ll be interesting to see how much the company got if we ever hear.

[00:19:38] Howard Hartbaum
Well, they raised a very small amount of money, like less than $3 million in total.

[00:19:43] David Hornik
In total, yeah. So.

[00:19:44] Howard Hartbaum
So whatever they got, they all did well.

[00:19:46] David Hornik
Great. It was great. Yeah. So I think that’s. And what’s funny to me is as I was just dropping off some kids at a. At a summer camp thing, and my daughter pulled out the iPad that was sitting in my car and she started playing, you know, Lady Gaga. Tap tap. Plugged it into the stereo of the car so we could listen to Lady Gaga while she played. Tap Tap Revenge. I’m thinking, all right, well, now. Now you know why Disney bought it. Because Disney used to own Darrows Mind Share when she had her little penguin playing her little penguin, and now they own her. On Tap Tap Revenge.

[00:20:19] Howard Hartbaum
It’s like there’s going to be the Mickey Mouse Club on Tap tap.

[00:20:22] David Hornik
Yeah. Oh, I’m sure. M I C K E Y oh, it was. They Might Be Giants, I think in there have the Mickey Mouse Club theme. So it’s this crossover of. Do you know that Devo just came out with a new album? It’s completely awesome.

[00:20:38] Howard Hartbaum
Yeah, I haven’t heard it yet.

[00:20:39] David Hornik
Although it sounds like they’re old stuff. These guys are not even bothering to pretend like they look like rock stars anymore. You know, some guys who, like, stay skinny and fit and dye their hair and all that stuff. The Devo guys are, like, just making fun of themselves.

[00:20:54] Howard Hartbaum
But the whole. No, it’s not. Their name was De Evolution.

[00:20:57] David Hornik
Yeah, right. No, they’re saying, like, this is the de evolution and they have this awesome stuff on YouTube. They’re using social media really well to drive it. So they have, like the all sorts of really cool videos on. On YouTube. You should check those out.

[00:21:09] Howard Hartbaum
That will be my evening tonight.

[00:21:11] David Hornik
Yes. I wonder if it’s in. Well, yeah, it’s YouTube, so you can watch it on the iPad. Although, you know, that’s kind of a special relationship. But what are those videos encoded in? They’re not encoded in. They’re in flash. So I wonder if all that stuff’s gonna shift to HTML5.

[00:21:29] Howard Hartbaum
Probably not.

[00:21:30] David Hornik
So you get. Have you gotten you the new iPhone yet?

[00:21:34] Howard Hartbaum
No. I sat next to Josh Stein from DFJ at an event the other day, and he pulled out his new iPhone and he was videoing the guys behind us at this event while we were watching it on the screen. Like, yeah, it does have a front camera.

[00:21:50] David Hornik
That was it.

[00:21:51] Howard Hartbaum
I actually like the old design better the way it’s kind of curvy smooth, and the new one has kind of caught the solid edge around it.

[00:21:58] David Hornik
Yeah, it’s just.

[00:21:58] Howard Hartbaum
It doesn’t kind of go in and out of the. I borrowed Josh’s and I was like, putting it in my pocket and taking It. I like the old one better.

[00:22:04] David Hornik
So you’re just gonna stick with that? I will say the new camera is spectacular.

[00:22:08] Howard Hartbaum
I’m gonna wait till the iPhone comes.

[00:22:09] David Hornik
So if you’re not. So, I mean, I can understand because you don’t actually care about your children and taking pictures of them as much as I care about my children, but because I love my children more, I’m gonna get the new one because I’ll take nicer pictures, and if you’re lucky, maybe we’ll be together, and I’ll take some nice pictures of your children. So someday when you. And you regret that you have these crappy pictures from your old, slippery iPhone that goes in and out of your pocket. Well.

[00:22:32] Howard Hartbaum
Well, if you want, you can just give me the iPhone or give me a new iPhone.

[00:22:37] David Hornik
The new one?

[00:22:37] Howard Hartbaum
Yeah. I just don’t want to pay for it. This one isn’t even a year old yet.

[00:22:41] David Hornik
Howard, you do understand that’s a business expense.

[00:22:44] Howard Hartbaum
It is.

[00:22:48] David Hornik
No, it isn’t. You should definitely not expense that, because I definitely don’t.

[00:22:51] Howard Hartbaum
Wait, so every time you.

[00:22:52] David Hornik
I definitely don’t want to spend a piece of your money on it.

[00:22:55] Howard Hartbaum
Let me think of that iPad and that iPhone I helped pay for.

[00:22:58] David Hornik
Don’t be ridiculous. Of course not. These are personal technology presents for myself. I would never do that. I love that. The fact that the latest and greatest. I should now say Howard loves his daughters and that he takes many pictures of them, and this has nothing. This decision has nothing to do with his horrible parenting.

[00:23:18] Howard Hartbaum
Yeah.

[00:23:21] David Hornik
What else you want to talk about?

[00:23:22] Howard Hartbaum
Anything.

[00:23:23] David Hornik
We were.

[00:23:24] Howard Hartbaum
We were talking about the SSE labs at Stanford.

[00:23:28] David Hornik
Yeah, right.

[00:23:29] Howard Hartbaum
Just sort of like Stanford’s version of Y Combinator, except they give money and they don’t take any equity.

[00:23:34] David Hornik
It’s funny, actually. So there. There are these set of choices that Stanford students have this summer, right. I think that it’s lightspeed. Someone.

[00:23:43] Howard Hartbaum
There’s a Lightspeed.

[00:23:44] David Hornik
Right. Speed has their incubator program. And do they take equity? I don’t think they do. I think they’re, like, just giving people grants of money to kind of hang out in their office.

[00:23:53] Howard Hartbaum
I was gonna apply to that, too.

[00:23:56] David Hornik
Wouldn’t that be awesome? How about next summer? Next summer, you and I will start a company.

[00:24:00] Howard Hartbaum
We’ll use a different name.

[00:24:01] David Hornik
We’ll do some other thing. We’ll start. We’ll apply and see if we can get in. Because, look, you know, we could do both. We’ll spend, like a day a week over there, and we’ll. Then we’ll be over here and, you know, whatever. We’ll go back and forth. It’s pretty close to this office.

[00:24:14] Howard Hartbaum
Well, not only that, but you hear about like these. There’s one venture fund that says that they’re going to be the index funds of venture deals and they’re going to just invest in every deal that’s out there. And I was thinking we should just apply to that like 30 times over and then take that money and put.

[00:24:29] David Hornik
It into other companies. Well, the other thing is we could just apply to each program, get accepted in each program, be part of each class and then get to know all of the other entrepreneurs and fund them. Our business could be hanging out with them and funding them.

[00:24:46] Howard Hartbaum
Nice.

[00:24:46] David Hornik
Do you think we could pitch that?

[00:24:48] Howard Hartbaum
You know, my daughter is at 16, is probably old enough to get into Y Combinator now.

[00:24:52] David Hornik
Why don’t she just, she can be our mouthpiece. My dog, my son’s 15. We’ll put them together, they can form a music startup.

[00:24:58] Howard Hartbaum
They’ll go in there and then we’ll just hang out with them the whole time.

[00:25:00] David Hornik
Yeah, right. Exactly. Well, this is what. When my dad, my dad used to be at the MIT Media Lab, he was like, you know, and he was working there. And then when he stopped working there, I thought that that was just unbelievable. Like, what, you don’t love me? Like clearly that’s very useful for me. If you would stay at the Media Lab, why would you leave the Media Lab? What, you know, how you feel about your job or other opportunities, whatever is so not my issue. But apparently, you know, he didn’t love me enough to care about that.

[00:25:31] Howard Hartbaum
Or maybe he was tired of being there with you.

[00:25:33] David Hornik
Maybe he was tired of. I don’t want to get into what he was tired of. Well, let’s just say that he moved on to being a startup guy and then so that he could then, you know, be a web app developer and then bitch about my new blog design.

[00:25:47] Howard Hartbaum
Yeah. So, you know, I was thinking about like SSE Labs and Y Combinator and techstars and all these different programs that are out there, but in the end there’s one billion dollar, you know, ten billion dollar web company every five years or so. And I wonder if having, you know, instead of 50 of them get funded, having 500 of these very early stage companies get funded, are we going to move from one $10 billion company to two every five years or is it still going to be one? It’d be interesting to see over the next few years. I bet it’s still one.

[00:26:19] David Hornik
I bet it’s still one. So first the question is, is it 2 billion multi billion dollar companies? If so, holy cow, that’s awesome. That’s incredibly important.

[00:26:30] Howard Hartbaum
You increase the number of companies by 3, 300 and you get two times as many outcomes.

[00:26:35] David Hornik
Yeah, but you get two, you know, Googles that are hiring 20,000 people. Right? That’s important for the U.S. economy. That’s huge.

[00:26:43] Howard Hartbaum
A lot of money.

[00:26:43] David Hornik
Huge and huge returns and all that stuff. So that would be interesting. The other question, and the one that a lot of these guys are banking on is can they replicate the Tapulous deal across a larger range of companies? Right. So let’s say the tap tap deal got done for somewhere between 50 and $100 million, which is my suspicion. Right.

[00:27:02] Howard Hartbaum
Well, the latest scuttlebutt on the web I think is 32.

[00:27:06] David Hornik
Okay.

[00:27:06] Howard Hartbaum
Is the closest.

[00:27:07] David Hornik
That’s what people are thinking.

[00:27:08] Howard Hartbaum
All right, so they’ve heard capped from insiders between 20 and 50.

[00:27:12] David Hornik
All right, so let’s say it’s 20 to 50. Good. 20 to 50. So 20 to 50, if you raise 3 million bucks, everybody makes some money. Right? But if you do that and then you do 40 others, how many of the 40 need to get 30 million bucks to, for that to be a good business?

[00:27:30] Howard Hartbaum
Not gonna work.

[00:27:32] David Hornik
That’s a problem. Right? That’s a hard problem. And then, but how many, what if some number of those 40 then get funded by the venture world and go and get bigger, whatever. How many of those have to be hundred million dollar companies? Or do you just have to get the one billion dollar company? Now obviously if you have the one billion dollar company that maybe that’s the answer. Right? If you’ve, if you’ve had any capacity to maintain your interest in the company, whatever. But it’s a trick. It is a tricky business. And now the fact that you, you know, you have Y Combinator and they actually have gotten a larger class. I think they’re up to 40 startups or whatever you have.

[00:28:06] Howard Hartbaum
They become a machine. They’re getting good at what, they’re very.

[00:28:09] David Hornik
Good at what they do. Right. People and they’re polished.

[00:28:12] Howard Hartbaum
Kids come out of there polished and they know what they’re doing. And I’m a little tired of the ramen profitable joke. I don’t even like cup of ramen.

[00:28:23] David Hornik
That’s because you lived in Asia.

[00:28:25] Howard Hartbaum
I like real ramen. Actually had a lot of cup of Ramen stuff there. I just don’t like it.

[00:28:29] David Hornik
You don’t like it?

[00:28:30] Howard Hartbaum
I like real ramen.

[00:28:32] David Hornik
So you said like, is that more expensive?

[00:28:34] Howard Hartbaum
A little bit. So it’s kind of like no cup of ramen. It’s at Costco is like probably 30 cents a cup or something like that. But real ramen is probably six bucks a bowl.

[00:28:43] David Hornik
Oh that’s. No, that’s much more expensive. Yeah, forget it. Like these companies are not real ramen profitable by any stretch.

[00:28:50] Howard Hartbaum
Yeah, that reminds me, I’m copper ramen profitable.

[00:28:54] David Hornik
Yeah. Right. Let’s be clear. Let’s be clear. You’re cup of ramen profitable and we, and we don’t. And we want it, we want you to hear with specificity. But anyway, so back to sse. SSE is the Stanford version. Stanford student enterprises. Right. And they talked to a bunch of people in all these other programs and said look, how can we be helpful to Stanford student startups, sss. Stanford student startups and get them some funding and create some of this infrastructure. So like you and I are going to go hold office hours and we’re going to go do you know, comment on the progress they’re making, etc. Plus we’re going to buy them dinner. I think that’s all they really I.

[00:29:36] Howard Hartbaum
Offered like a fancy dinner and they just wanted us to buy pizza. Yeah, I’m like pizza man, let’s go for something good.

[00:29:41] David Hornik
No, zip it. That’s awesome. Pizza it is.

[00:29:44] Howard Hartbaum
I’ll bring the beer.

[00:29:46] David Hornik
Fine, you can bring the beer but make sure it’s paps blue ribbon.

[00:29:50] Howard Hartbaum
I wonder if anybody’s ever invented beer flavored pizza.

[00:29:54] David Hornik
H, I don’t know why anyone want beer flavored anything other than beer. Cuz you do understand that the only point is the intoxication, not the flavor.

[00:30:04] Howard Hartbaum
I got the proposal a few years ago for it was beer flavored ice cream. Get drunk while you dessert. I look at that presentation. So I sent the guy back an email and I said can you send me a sample please? And I never heard from him.

[00:30:22] David Hornik
And more importantly, it’s not about the flavor. Numbs Gull like it could be ice cream flavored ice cream with alcohol and you’d get drunk while you dessert. Has he ever heard of jello shots? That’s his freaking startup. You sent me a startup today. Talking about it was. I won’t go into the specifics because we don’t want to, you know, but about changing a physical characteristic about your body. No, it’s not penis enlargement but because.

[00:30:53] Howard Hartbaum
There’S a lot of people in that business.

[00:30:55] David Hornik
Yeah, right man. There’s a lot of, there’s a lot of money either There must be a lot of money being made given how many emails I get about it in a week.

[00:31:02] Howard Hartbaum
I can’t think of the name of the company. There’s a venture backed company that does non surgical facelifts. Have you heard of this?

[00:31:08] David Hornik
No.

[00:31:10] Howard Hartbaum
Basically you stick your face in a microwave oven and they burn the subcutaneous tissue. And then over the next two weeks or so, as your body heals itself, it tightens the skin and gives you it faces. And they’ve, I guess they’ve got FDA approval and they’re going to roll this into shopping malls. So you’d be like walking down saying, I’m gonna have Frappuccino, I’m gonna have a facelift. I’m gonna get some clothes at the Lulibong.

[00:31:34] David Hornik
The problem with the podcast is that if this were video podcast, you could see my look, my face, this look of disgust.

[00:31:42] Howard Hartbaum
But there’s a market for that and it’s a huge market.

[00:31:45] David Hornik
Huge market. Well, it’s like the market for liposuction, which is massive and disgusting. Here’s an idea. Instead of sucking the fat out of your body, how about you go hike it off? How about that? How about that?

[00:31:58] Howard Hartbaum
I went hiking after work yesterday. I’m getting ready. I’m gonna do a hike, Half Dome with a friend of mine next Friday.

[00:32:04] David Hornik
Yeah, good luck.

[00:32:05] Howard Hartbaum
I’m in training. 19 miles in one day. So I gotta get in training. I’ve got a week to get in training.

[00:32:09] David Hornik
How many? How many?

[00:32:10] Howard Hartbaum
Half up and half down.

[00:32:11] David Hornik
But how?

[00:32:13] Howard Hartbaum
The normal.

[00:32:15] David Hornik
Wow, Howard, that’s. You’re a genius. No, how far? How many feet up?

[00:32:21] Howard Hartbaum
I don’t know. And the funny thing was I said, let me guess.

[00:32:29] David Hornik
So it’s nine and a half miles each way?

[00:32:31] Howard Hartbaum
Pretty much.

[00:32:32] David Hornik
Is that what it is? Or is it 10 miles?

[00:32:34] Howard Hartbaum
It’s like 3000 vertical feet or 2500. It’s a fair amount.

[00:32:37] David Hornik
That’s a lot of climbing.

[00:32:38] Howard Hartbaum
And, and so I went last night and I was using this app on my iPhone called Runkeeper and I put it in hiking mode where it runs a GPS and it tracks as you’re hiking. And I’m like halfway into the hike and I’m like, I already burned 380 calories. So when I got down to the bottom after the six miles and I burned like 750, 800 calories, I bought one of those tall mocha Frappuccinos on the way home to make up for it.

[00:33:00] David Hornik
Yeah, right. You’re like, I can have this.

[00:33:03] Howard Hartbaum
Broke even.

[00:33:03] David Hornik
Totally. Well, is that me? That was me walking the dish and then I could have, I went out to dinner and I could have a great dinner. Where I told you where I went. What Was it called? RN 73 or 72 or. I’m going to look it up because it was so good. In the meantime, maybe you can talk about something that is related to anything.

[00:33:21] Howard Hartbaum
You mean like related to our jobs?

[00:33:22] David Hornik
Yeah, right. That’s what I’m saying. Where did I go? I used to be RN74. RN74 in San Francisco. That is a delicious meal right there.

[00:33:30] Howard Hartbaum
What do they. What kind of food?

[00:33:31] David Hornik
I don’t know. Delicious American food, kind of continental. I put it in Continental. RN17.

[00:33:37] Howard Hartbaum
I like Boulevard up there, but I’ll try R Boulevard.

[00:33:39] David Hornik
So this is by the same guy who is Michael Mina. Michael Mina.

[00:33:44] Howard Hartbaum
So that first time I went there I liked it. But the second time.

[00:33:46] David Hornik
But anyway, eat at the count at the. It’s not called the counter is. It’s called the bar. Eat at the bar. You can watch them cooking. Being a chef is a hard job. Oh my God. All we do our job, we sit at computers and we sit here in.

[00:33:59] Howard Hartbaum
Banter, back and forth and there’s a microphone.

[00:34:01] David Hornik
We don’t do shit. We don’t do anything. It’s like a joke. And meanwhile chefs are like running around all over the place and then when they’re done, they hand us delicious stuff and when we’re done, not so much.

[00:34:13] Howard Hartbaum
We hand you money.

[00:34:14] David Hornik
We hand you someone else’s money.

[00:34:16] Howard Hartbaum
You can go buy yourself delicious.

[00:34:17] David Hornik
We go, thank you. Here’s someone else’s money.

[00:34:20] Howard Hartbaum
So anyway, I used to work at Honda and I’ve been bantering back and forth with a buddy of mine who works at Honda and of course he doesn’t want to give me the inside scoop, but I want to get one of those new CRZs.

[00:34:31] David Hornik
Is that the all electric one?

[00:34:33] Howard Hartbaum
No, it’s another hybrid, but it’s built on like the old crx. It’s a little tiny two seater car that’s kind of cool looking. It’s got a continuously variable transmission. It’s kind of cool. It probably underperforms, but it’s kind of nice looking. And then I got chatting with him about the Tesla ip and here’s a buddy of mine who works in the auto industry and what he says to me is, can you believe Tesla went public? Do you have at all any idea how shitty the auto industry is? We’re lucky if we can make 2% margins in a good year. Why would anybody buy stock in a Public car company. And my reaction to him was well, there aren’t many choices of stocks going public and everybody thinks that electric cars are kind of cool for the future. Hustles are kind of cool. It just, it’s a hard business and there’s going to be a lot of capital required for that company. It’s a long way away from profitability. They had an excellent ipo. It will be interesting to see how it plays out now.

[00:35:25] David Hornik
But it was an amazing IPO. It went up, the market went down 300 points or something and Tesla went up 41%.

[00:35:34] Howard Hartbaum
Yeah, up, yeah.

[00:35:35] David Hornik
Now today I understand they reclaimed all that 41%, right? Yeah. But still like what I don’t understand is the amount of money it takes to actually build a self sustaining real car business.

[00:35:50] Howard Hartbaum
Do you know how much money it costs one of the major car companies to design a new model?

[00:35:55] David Hornik
Well, I just saw something. No, I don’t but A billion. A billion dollars. So, because I just saw some reference, it was like a Toyota commercial that said that they are investing a million dollars an hour in, into safety and safety. Is that right? A million dollars an hour?

[00:36:11] Howard Hartbaum
Yeah.

[00:36:12] David Hornik
That’s awesome.

[00:36:13] Howard Hartbaum
Well, they have, Toyota is the biggest car company in the world. They have lots of models and so I’m sure they’re stretching exactly how that million is spent.

[00:36:20] David Hornik
I don’t care. That’s amazing.

[00:36:22] Howard Hartbaum
Let’s all take a trip to Florida and test drive our cars to make sure they’re safe.

[00:36:27] David Hornik
That’s crazy. So I don’t see, I mean I think that that must be a bet on Tesla get bought. Like do you honestly, you honestly think that they’re going to build a big self sustaining company?

[00:36:39] Howard Hartbaum
I think it’s more likely that they have some big players who want to use their kind of electronic chassis in their own cars. There was discussion a couple years ago about like Honda providing all the engines for Chrysler for example.

[00:36:53] David Hornik
Yeah.

[00:36:54] Howard Hartbaum
And now you’ve got.

[00:36:55] David Hornik
Well, and they’re doing this thing with Toyota, right, Aren’t they? They’re doing something joint thing with Toyota.

[00:36:59] Howard Hartbaum
But right now all the other, you know, hybrid, most of the other hybrid cars that are non Toyota are all paying Toyota technology licenses for using their stuff. And so Tesla must have some really cool technology in there. Everybody else is looking in and saying, you know what customers want electric cars. We better have some piece of that.

[00:37:18] David Hornik
Yeah. So here’s my other theory.

[00:37:20] Howard Hartbaum
I don’t know, you just made this up just now.

[00:37:23] David Hornik
But here’s the think like I don’t know anything in Public about public company investing. You would. If you were to like, say, hey, David, here, here is a billion dollars, put it in the public markets. I would go, yeah, I don’t know what to do with that. But I. Watching these IPOs, these consumer brands that people have heard of and are excited about, they buy you, right? It’s like, what do I want to buy? I want to buy Apple because I use it and I like it. I think it’s great. And so. So I’m sure it’s going to go up, right?

[00:37:51] Howard Hartbaum
So my buddy at Honda said to me in the email about the crz and we batted back and forth about test. He said, by the way, when is Skype going public? I want to buy some of that. And I sent him a note. I said, do you use Skype? And he said, no.

[00:38:03] David Hornik
Right. Do you know anything about Skype?

[00:38:05] Howard Hartbaum
No, but I want to buy some of that.

[00:38:06] David Hornik
It’s exactly right. So Skype’s going to go up and when Facebook goes out, all these people who love Facebook are going to.

[00:38:17] Howard Hartbaum
They’re all going to buy their hundred.

[00:38:18] David Hornik
Shares and Facebook’s going to triple and it’s going to go from. I used to think it was going to go public at 20 billion, but now I think it’s going to go public at 25 billion and I think it’s going to go from 25 billion to 75 billion. And it’s going to be one of the biggest, most important companies on the public market because people love Facebook. That’s a crazy way to buy stock. I’m not recommending it. I’m just. People love Apple and that’s now the biggest company behind what? It’s a ge. What’s bigger than like Chevron or something like that? There’s like one. There’s like one company. Not bp, not bp, not any.

[00:38:55] Howard Hartbaum
So I was driving on the east coast on the weekend and on the way back to the Boston airport, I had to buy some gas and I got off at exit 36 on 93 because there’s gas stations there and there was a bunch of different gas stations and there was a BP station and I can’t remember the last time I saw a BP station. All the other gas stations were completely full. There was nobody buying gas station.

[00:39:17] David Hornik
Is that right? People were actually voting with their.

[00:39:20] Howard Hartbaum
So of course I don’t want to wait in line. So I go to the BP gas station.

[00:39:23] David Hornik
How are you?

[00:39:24] Howard Hartbaum
And the service was so terrible, I had to leave and go to another station and wait in line.

[00:39:29] David Hornik
That’ll Serve you right. What kind of like. Have you ever heard of act? Being an activist? I just wanted money to bp.

[00:39:37] Howard Hartbaum
I was pitying the poor station owner. Some guy’s running his little business and he happened to pick bp, and now he’s gonna go under, too. I was trying to help him out, but he was so bad.

[00:39:48] David Hornik
I go get you and you, you.

[00:39:49] Howard Hartbaum
Know, there it’s all full service or whatever, and the guy’s on the phone, ridiculous, in the booth, and I’m like, banging on the glass. And he’s like, five minutes. I’m like, I wanna buy my gas. And he’s like, five minutes, I want to buy gas. And so then I just go and pump.

[00:40:05] David Hornik
It turns out that actually, when it’s full service, you can actually pump it yourself.

[00:40:11] Howard Hartbaum
I didn’t want to get arrested for pumping.

[00:40:12] David Hornik
They might yell at you like, what are you doing? Pumping your own gas?

[00:40:15] Howard Hartbaum
But anyway, so then I waited in line across the street.

[00:40:18] David Hornik
Good. You should have started there, moron.

[00:40:20] Howard Hartbaum
I guess maybe the Bee Kai was so surprised that he had a customer, he didn’t know what to do.

[00:40:24] David Hornik
Yeah, it’s been days since anyone was willing to buy BP gas. See, now with Tesla, nobody has to buy gas. The problem, they just have to buy ga. They just have to buy power from someone who is burning stuff somewhere else.

[00:40:37] Howard Hartbaum
So the practical problem with Tesla, of course, is you run out of juice along the highway you’re doing. It’s not like you can walk two miles to a gas station with a little plastic container. You probably have to get, like, a little forklift to carry you a new battery.

[00:40:49] David Hornik
Right now you have to call the truck, and the tow truck has another giant battery, and then it sits next to you for an hour, and then you have enough gas to get the 20 miles to the next place you can gas up for seven hours.

[00:41:04] Howard Hartbaum
So I went to lunch in Palo Alto today, and there was a Prius in front of the restaurant. There was a cop writing the Prius a ticket. And when I saw the cop putting the ticket, I noticed that the Prius owner had left a notice on his windshield that said, battery is dead. Like that means I can park for more than two hours because my battery is dead. And I’m looking at a hybrid car with two batteries. The charged battery is dead.

[00:41:31] David Hornik
Bummer for them. All right, Howard. Well, I’m glad we fit this venture cast in before we.

[00:41:37] Howard Hartbaum
Did we talk about anything today?

[00:41:39] David Hornik
I don’t really think so. Yeah, we did.

[00:41:41] Howard Hartbaum
We talked about that new restaurant, RN74.

[00:41:44] David Hornik
I don’t know if it’s new, but it was delicious. That’s all I’m saying.

[00:41:46] Howard Hartbaum
You recommended Baum?

[00:41:49] David Hornik
Yes.

[00:41:49] Howard Hartbaum
I’m going there with my wife.

[00:41:50] David Hornik
Are you?

[00:41:51] Howard Hartbaum
Yeah.

[00:41:51] David Hornik
You will enjoy it. It’s in, it’s in Palo Alto.

[00:41:54] Howard Hartbaum
Yeah. Off of California.

[00:41:56] David Hornik
If you listen to this podcast and you’re in Chicago, whatever, you’re going like David and Howard. Why do we care? And the answer is, because when you.

[00:42:03] Howard Hartbaum
Come to town, you’ll know where to go.

[00:42:05] David Hornik
You can go there.

[00:42:05] Howard Hartbaum
So we have a. Kudos to our farthest away listener. We had a note from a buddy of mine, Toivo Annas in Estonia, about two months ago, you got that note and he sent a nice note debating one of the comments that we were discussing. We were like, people listen to us in Estonia. And it was Toivo. And so thanks Toivo.

[00:42:27] David Hornik
Absolutely. Are we sucking up to Toivo or should we sign up to.

[00:42:29] Howard Hartbaum
We’re sucking up to Toivo. He was one of the four core developers at Skype to build the entire product from the start and ran their engineering there. And now he’s doing kind of angel investing with his spoils from Skype, which was a lot of money. And in Estonia, it’s like really a lot of money.

[00:42:48] David Hornik
So let’s do one other suck up, which is we’ve been talking to these young guys who are from Stanford who are running the SSE program. And I think they’re being really smart and systematic and they’re doing their work and they’re researching it and they intend to, like, learn a bunch this year and make it better next year. And it’s, it’s exactly like the group that run bases at Stanford, who, which is the entrepreneurial group, they learn a ton and they’re smart. And so we’re completely sucking up to you guys. And by the way, when you start Companies, August Capital, augustcap.com We want to fund you.

[00:43:22] Howard Hartbaum
We have special deals in August.

[00:43:24] David Hornik
Yeah, right. You can get funded in August at a. At a slightly different, better valuation. 20% off.

[00:43:30] Howard Hartbaum
Yep, 20% off valuation during August.

[00:43:35] David Hornik
So. So you should come see us.

[00:43:37] Howard Hartbaum
But you have to mention this program.

[00:43:39] David Hornik
Yeah, right. Use the special word. David’s better than Howard or Howard is David’s sidekick. Yeah, exactly. Howard is David’s. If you, if you, if you, if you use the special term, Howard is David’s sidekick. You get 20% off your valuation in.

[00:43:56] Howard Hartbaum
August, but August only.

[00:43:57] David Hornik
Actually, it’s probably. That’s probably the wrong way to describe it. Right. They probably get a 20 better valuation because 20 off their valuation is just helping us. There was no.

[00:44:09] Howard Hartbaum
I’ve ruined it anyway.

[00:44:10] David Hornik
All right, well, hey, have a. Have a good vacation and we’ll.

[00:44:16] Howard Hartbaum
I’m done with vacation already.

[00:44:17] David Hornik
Oh, then I’ll have a good vacation.

[00:44:18] Howard Hartbaum
Vacation and I’ll hold down the for it for August, and then when I.

[00:44:22] David Hornik
Return, we will do another venture cast. This has been David Hornik from August.

[00:44:27] Howard Hartbaum
Capital and Howard Hart and Bob from August Capital.

[00:44:30] David Hornik
Howard, your voice really isn’t that loud.

[00:44:33] Howard Hartbaum
I’m holding it down. I think when it’s when I’m on the phone, it must be when I’m on the phone, because that’s what happens.

[00:44:38] David Hornik
So let’s never do VentureCast over the phone. All right. Bye. Bye.