Generated Transcript

[00:00:14] Craig Syverson
Welcome to VentureCast 23. I’m Craig Syverson of Grunt Media.

[00:00:19] David Hornik
We’re diving right in.

[00:00:20] Craig Syverson
We’re diving right in.

[00:00:21] David Hornik
And I am David Hornik of August Capital. That’s unbelievable.

[00:00:24] Craig Syverson
You know, cut to the chase.

[00:00:26] David Hornik
Excellent.

[00:00:27] Craig Syverson
This program brought to you in DCE Digital Consumer enablement. Just because we care about you, our.

[00:00:34] David Hornik
Digital consumer, I think that we should make this available as an iTunes plus.

[00:00:40] Craig Syverson
ITunes.

[00:00:40] David Hornik
Oh, right. Don’t you think?

[00:00:42] Craig Syverson
Well, it’s in DCE, and. Yeah. And then we’ll raise the data rate, Right?

[00:00:46] David Hornik
We’ll raise the data rate and we’ll raise the price.

[00:00:48] Craig Syverson
Yes.

[00:00:49] David Hornik
30%. More than 0. 0.30%. That’s Mr. Math.

[00:00:56] Craig Syverson
Yeah. So where do we start? It’s been nutty. Yeah.

[00:01:01] David Hornik
Oh, my God. Crazy.

[00:01:02] Craig Syverson
The past couple weeks.

[00:01:03] David Hornik
We got all these acquisitions, we got all these financings. We got.

[00:01:07] Craig Syverson
We got that big conference you went to.

[00:01:09] David Hornik
Yeah, that was. You tell me. Happy to start anywhere you’d like. What are you curious most about this. This fine Friday, Craig?

[00:01:16] Craig Syverson
Well, goodness, I am curious about feedburner. I know it’s close to your heart.

[00:01:20] David Hornik
Indeed.

[00:01:21] Craig Syverson
What have you heard?

[00:01:22] David Hornik
Well, it’s official, right?

[00:01:24] Craig Syverson
Yeah.

[00:01:24] David Hornik
I thought feedburner themselves are admitting it.

[00:01:26] Craig Syverson
They are admitting it.

[00:01:28] David Hornik
I don’t know if they talked about.

[00:01:29] Craig Syverson
Price, but no one did, according to at least Mike Arrington this morning.

[00:01:33] David Hornik
All right.

[00:01:33] Craig Syverson
As of this morning, they won’t.

[00:01:34] David Hornik
They won’t say.

[00:01:35] Craig Syverson
They won’t say.

[00:01:36] David Hornik
But, you know, look, Dick’s a great entrepreneur. I’m sure he got a reasonable price for what has proved to be a very interesting asset and a growing space. And, you know, this is just another stomp towards domination by Google.

[00:01:51] Craig Syverson
Domination.

[00:01:53] David Hornik
Now, you know, they get to own RSS feed advertising as well.

[00:01:57] Craig Syverson
So you think that’s the thing here?

[00:01:58] David Hornik
Well, you know, I’ve been. So I’ve been a member of the Ad Network through Venture Blog. So Venture Blog is part of the Venture Capital Ad Network, which is an aggregation of a lot of different venture capital blogs. And then advertisers can buy ads into the whole network.

[00:02:14] Craig Syverson
I see. That’s all those ads I see on Venture Blog, all that money you’re making.

[00:02:18] David Hornik
Now, my friend, first of all, there are no ads on Venture Blog. Proper.

[00:02:22] Craig Syverson
Proper.

[00:02:23] David Hornik
If you go to ventureblog.com, you’ll see no ads.

[00:02:26] Craig Syverson
Right.

[00:02:27] David Hornik
If you get. If you get the RSS feed. I did want to see sort of how it would go.

[00:02:31] Craig Syverson
Yeah, yeah.

[00:02:31] David Hornik
So I did sign up and I’m getting richer than. Than. I mean, it’s a king’s ransom. But I got to see sort of how the process is and what the CPMs are because when they, you actually have advertisers and they advertising on your feed and you either approve it or don’t. And so it’s oh, do you want to do this? It’s a $3 CPM or a $6 CPM and then you get to see the click through rates and all that stuff. So that’s been actually quite interesting. And it’s a very simple, smart, automated process. And so you could see how by adding that feedburner piece into the rest of the network, suddenly now advertisers on Google can say okay, I want this ad in feeds, I want this ad as AdWords, I want this graphical ad in the broader network, whatever.

[00:03:14] Craig Syverson
So they’ll split it up as the type of advertising.

[00:03:18] David Hornik
That’s my guess. I mean it’ll be interesting to see because I mean, you know, they could just say hey, we’re going to advertise across a huge network and you’ll get performance but the price is X. But you know, feedburner isn’t advertising on a word basis. Now maybe they’ll do that next. Maybe they’ll be able to parse RSS feeds and say we’ll sell AdWords in an AdWords like way into RSS feeds, which would be very interesting, right? Would be interesting to see whether that increased click through, whether that increased the efficiency of the advertisers, etc. So anyway, it makes a pile of sense. And so you know, congratulations to the feedbirder team but also I think congratulations to the Google team because boy, oh boy, I can’t believe that all these other companies that care about the ad model are just letting Google buy everything. Where you know, hello, people start buying this thing, this read burner thing. It was a good thing, you know, pretty valuable, great team and all that. So now, you know, there’s an added bonus. Actually I’ve been exchanging emails with my good friend Mark Hedlund today. Mark said that there was a, there was a bonus dividend in the sale of feedburner to Google. Now what he meant by that was that he had told me to fund feedburner and the dividend is that he gets to taunt me, which I think is very nice that he gets that I failed, you know, failed to fund feedburner. Now they, now they get sold.

[00:04:41] Craig Syverson
Yeah, right.

[00:04:41] David Hornik
Make a bunch of money and now he can taunt me again. You know, hey, you should have done that, right? And you Know, Mark, hats off to you. You have been more right than wrong. How would you like to join August Capital?

[00:04:54] Craig Syverson
Yes.

[00:04:55] David Hornik
But as I said to Mark in my email back to him, I think that the added bonus is that the folks from feedburner are going to spend more time out here now. And that’s great. I think it’s great.

[00:05:04] Craig Syverson
Because get him out of Chicago, for crying out.

[00:05:06] David Hornik
Yeah, right. You know that Chicago, particularly in the winter.

[00:05:09] Craig Syverson
Yep. Good times.

[00:05:10] David Hornik
We’ll see them a lot. I’m guessing we’ll see them a lot from say sort of October, November through February. March. Well.

[00:05:17] Craig Syverson
Well, it’s not like summers over there. All that great either.

[00:05:20] David Hornik
That’s true.

[00:05:21] Craig Syverson
Yeah.

[00:05:21] David Hornik
Maybe we’ll see them year round. So anyway, so that’s good. And then, you know, then last FM.

[00:05:27] Craig Syverson
Got bought by CVS is going crazy, man. Yeah, they’re buying. They’re like buying the web. Well, hey, they’re buying their web arm.

[00:05:34] David Hornik
You know, they’re. So Les Moonvest was speaking at D. Oh, was really great. Very smart, well spoken and he had been pretty well primed on the web world. I saw Mike Marquez there. Mike’s the. I don’t know, what are you. Mike, SVP of Corp. Dev and Strategy or some such thing. And then Quincy Smith, who was brought in, who everybody has huge respect for and clearly focusing on this stuff and the interesting conversation round that Les had, that is an interesting contrast to others that they’re putting out their content really broadly and this idea of distributing it broadly instead of creating this walled garden, which I think is a smart strategy. And his point was, look, this is an advertising medium. We get distribution and then we serve ads and we get paid. So, you know, why wouldn’t you want broad distribution? And so long as he has the capacity to continue monetizing those assets as they get distributed broadly, he is dead right. You know, so if Quincy and Mike and Les, not necessarily in that order, but perhaps in that order, can figure that out, then, you know, they’re going to build a very interesting big new media property, not just an old media property. So that’s exciting. And then Stumble upon was officially announced. Stumble upon by, you know, they got bought by ebay. And that’s an interesting thing, isn’t it? Like, so my personal view on that one. I think I’ve proclaimed my love for Stumble upon in the past on this show.

[00:06:56] Craig Syverson
You have indeed.

[00:06:57] David Hornik
So who am I to, you know, not continue that? The thing that’s great about stumbleupon, you’re not bitter that, you know, you’re not bitter. Am I bitter?

[00:07:06] Craig Syverson
I mean, you didn’t, you didn’t invest in Stumble upon either.

[00:07:08] David Hornik
I didn’t have the chance. I tried. I tried. I like those guys.

[00:07:11] Craig Syverson
You got to muscle your way in.

[00:07:13] David Hornik
Look, you know what, look, you people.

[00:07:16] Craig Syverson
Okay, the amateur perspective. Here comes. He’s gonna, he’s gonna.

[00:07:19] David Hornik
No, I’m just, you know, look, it’s a lot. This is a long term business. Those are great entrepreneurs. I really like them. I look forward to chatting with them about the next thing they build. They were given the opportunity, having raised a million and a half dollars, to sell their company for $75 million. You know, under pretty much any circumstances. That math works well for the founders of StumbleUpon. And so I’m just, you know, I’m not the kind of guy who’s going to kind of go in and make this big argument, hey, you guys, you’re crazy. You got to take my money. You know, you’re out of your mind or whatever. That’s just not. I think entrepreneurs have to make rational choices about what the risk versus long term reward, et cetera. And you know, the, the contrast to what those guys did is what Mark Zuckerberg did, which is to have been offered prices that by all accounts would have made him many hundreds of millions of dollars. I repeat, many hundreds of millions of dollars. But by the way, let’s just do a quick little exercise. I think this is a valuable exercise. Let’s say you take $100 million and you put it in the bank.

[00:08:22] Craig Syverson
The bank.

[00:08:23] David Hornik
In a, in a savings account. What is like a savings account? Get you 2, 3. Let’s say it’s 3%. Let’s say you got like the crappiest rates, you know, but you get a 3% return. Three million bucks. That’s what you get next year on your Savings account. On 100 million bucks. Okay, I could live up. Guess what? If you don’t spend that 3 million bucks next year, you make the interest on 101 million bucks. Let’s say you spend 2, you got 101 million bucks and you know, make your 3 point something million. I mean, that was 100 million. I mean, and, and by the way, you’ll get more than 3%.

[00:08:58] Craig Syverson
Yeah.

[00:08:59] David Hornik
When you have 100 million bucks now you got 5 million bucks anyway. But Mr. Zuckerberg, despite this math, said, I think this is something big and interesting. I want to control it, I want to grow it. And then, you know, bang. F8. Holy cow. We should talk about that. Were you thinking about that? I was I’d forgotten about how amazing and huge this F8 thing is. So I guess I should give some context.

[00:09:28] Craig Syverson
You should, because I’m not. I’m not up that.

[00:09:29] David Hornik
So F8 is so Facebook. So. So here’s a further contrast.

[00:09:34] Craig Syverson
Okay.

[00:09:34] David Hornik
You’ve got MySpace. Photobucket starts serving these slideshows and monetizing them on MySpace. MySpace shuts down. Photobucket says you cannot monetize the traffic sitting on our network, and they have a big scuffle, and then they ultimately buy Photobucket for a bunch of money. I was hanging out with a couple of the Photo Bucket guys at D. They seem very happy. They’ve done that math, by the way. They’ve done that.

[00:10:02] Craig Syverson
How much they did early on.

[00:10:03] David Hornik
But anyway, in contrast, what Facebook has done is it has launched this thing called F8 that says anyone who wants can build an application on top of the Photo Bucket infrastructure that allows you to serve these applications into your Photobucket profile. And so suddenly, you can have. I just got. So I’ve been getting lots of these applications now. So Kongregate, which is this cool new social gaming platform, has created some games that now play into your Photo Bucket. Excuse me, your Facebook profile. I got an email from my friends at Oodle. They have an application that lets you track and manage things on Oodle over, you know, and I like, is this. Is this music thing, and it’s getting a huge amount of traction and energy and excitement because it’s the number one application being placed on the F. Courtesy of F8 in the Facebook platform. Right. So. And. And the interesting thing that Facebook said was go ahead and monetize it any way you want and keep the revenue yourselves, which is just an incredibly different point of view from what, you know, what’s being said at Facebook. And So Facebook at MySpace.

[00:11:10] Craig Syverson
Okay.

[00:11:11] David Hornik
Oh, man.

[00:11:12] Craig Syverson
All right.

[00:11:12] David Hornik
You know what I’m saying?

[00:11:13] Craig Syverson
I’m with you.

[00:11:14] David Hornik
Just. I’m all riled up.

[00:11:15] Craig Syverson
I know.

[00:11:16] David Hornik
So. So they announced this thing. They launched the platform. There are a bunch of companies, you know, big companies that they’re working with Amazon and others that. That have built applications. They show them they have a hack night. People get excited. The velocity of requests that I have at this point on Facebook is. Is out of this world.

[00:11:34] Craig Syverson
Hmm.

[00:11:35] David Hornik
In fact, I was sitting next to Owen Van Nada, who is the COO over at Facebook at the Wall Street Journal conference, and I kept showing, you know, like, here’s my. Look at my trio. This is what you’re doing. Here’s another One, now another one. You’re like, hey, Craig, Severson is claims he’s your friend. Oh, come now.

[00:11:51] Craig Syverson
Oh, come on.

[00:11:52] David Hornik
Deny, deny.

[00:11:54] Craig Syverson
So anyway, you don’t have to send those nasty raspberry sounds with that denial, by the way. It’s really embarrassing.

[00:12:00] David Hornik
What is? Voice sms. For what?

[00:12:01] Craig Syverson
For that vsms.

[00:12:04] David Hornik
Anyway, I don’t know even how we got here.

[00:12:07] Craig Syverson
Well, I interrupted you a long time ago about StumbleUpon trying to taunt you and then.

[00:12:10] David Hornik
Oh, yes, well, that’s right. So anyway, StumbleUpon, the guys took an opportunity to sell into a big company again. I think this is really smart and I’ve been saying this for some time about ebay. I think that ebay needs to compete as a broader social media company, that in order to continue to keep its cost down. Right. They can’t possibly rely on searches on Google and Yahoo and elsewhere for traffic and not somehow be hampered in the same way as if they had their own source of really interesting traffic that would drive, you know, would continue to drive commerce to their various platforms.

[00:12:47] Craig Syverson
So you think that’s the strategy, is bring people from the outside in rather than those who are in use for.

[00:12:51] David Hornik
Giving them some more stuff to do? Well, I think that, I think that it will be this virtuous circle, but I would start, if I were them, I would start with outside in. And you know, I keep, you know, you look at blogs, the amount of blog traffic around every category that drives information into potential ebay auctions or whatever. I mean, I think that’s an interesting one. And so stumble upon again. What’s interesting? Oh, well, they drive lots of conversation traffic and maybe it becomes a media platform, maybe becomes an advertising platform. Maybe it just drives users to consider and think about these things. So I think that’s exciting for ebay and I think it’s exciting for the StumbleUpon founders.

[00:13:29] Craig Syverson
And they’ve been around. You went to their party. I think on the last show we.

[00:13:32] David Hornik
Talked about it was what, their fifth anniversary? Yeah, I mean, they, you know, they were around for quite some time in Canada where they went to school and, and got together and less time here in the Bay Area, but it looks like they’ll be here for a while.

[00:13:44] Craig Syverson
Yeah.

[00:13:44] David Hornik
So what else?

[00:13:46] Craig Syverson
Mahalo.

[00:13:47] David Hornik
Ah, mahalo. So mahalo launched at D, right? At D. Jason Calcanis. Who. Those of you, you’ve heard Jason on our show before, taunting us, and now he’s a fan. He is a fan. Although he did say to me, oh.

[00:14:01] Craig Syverson
No, now he’s back into his taunting mode.

[00:14:03] David Hornik
But he said, what? What do you got? You guys still can do. Why don’t you do more shows? You can still doing shows. And I said, we do it every other week. It’s what we do. No, you don’t. We had that like one little period of time once. Right, Once. I mean, you know, so anyway, so Jason, we’re doing a show. Here it is. Don’t be like, don’t be dissing us for missing your schedule briefly. Yeah, right. For your mistake.

[00:14:26] Craig Syverson
Exactly.

[00:14:27] David Hornik
So Jason was there. He’s launching Mahalo, which is a. I believe they’re describing it as a people driven search engine.

[00:14:33] Craig Syverson
Right. Human powered search.

[00:14:35] David Hornik
Human powered search. Thank you. I’m sorry, I didn’t want to mess up their. Their messaging.

[00:14:40] Craig Syverson
As it turns out, a very close friend of our family is the cto, Mark Jeffrey.

[00:14:44] David Hornik
Oh.

[00:14:45] Craig Syverson
So congrats all around for that.

[00:14:47] David Hornik
Wait, no.

[00:14:48] Craig Syverson
Where was Mark before Mark started Pop Current, which was the gotcha. And before that he wrote a book, Pocket the Pendant, one of the first podcast novels.

[00:14:59] David Hornik
So he was there too. I didn’t. If I had known the relationship, I would have gone up and said, you know, like, we have. Hey, we have like a mutual friend.

[00:15:06] Craig Syverson
Yeah, man.

[00:15:08] David Hornik
And, you know, that’s all. That’s what networking is. Right there.

[00:15:10] Craig Syverson
That is.

[00:15:11] David Hornik
That’s just a little less networking right there. And I missed that opportunity.

[00:15:14] Craig Syverson
I didn’t tell you ahead of time.

[00:15:15] David Hornik
You didn’t want me to harass him.

[00:15:16] Craig Syverson
You know, they hadn’t launched yet.

[00:15:19] David Hornik
He hadn’t need that. He didn’t need that, frankly, me bugging him.

[00:15:22] Craig Syverson
Yeah. And they have plenty of money.

[00:15:24] David Hornik
So here’s the thing. Yes, they do have plenty of money. I did bug Jason about that, but his comment was, the value you wouldn’t have paid the valuation that I raised. I thought, well, that was like, you know. Well, right on. Exactly. So the theory upon which Mahalo is based is that 25% of searches constitute a mere 10,000 search terms. And that spam is at such a high that people are gaming search results, that those search results, particularly for those 10,000 searches, are getting worse and worse.

[00:16:00] Craig Syverson
Certainly as the web is getting older and.

[00:16:02] David Hornik
Right. So I’m sort of with them. Right. I mean, I have oftentimes observed this gift. There’s so much economic interest in getting to the top of those searches that it’s just going to be harder and harder for The Googles, Yahoos, MSNs of this world. And Jim, my apologies. And ask, of course, to maintain the quality of those searches and have a.

[00:16:25] Craig Syverson
Differentiation as well, with other search.

[00:16:27] David Hornik
Yeah, no, absolutely. And on the differentiation side, I should just say this. There is a new rev of. Of ask that’s coming. That is awesome and I look forward to talking more about it. In fact, maybe we’ll get. We’ll get Mr. Lanzone to come chat with us because Jim’s a great guy and Doug Leeds, who runs product over there is a great guy. And what they’re doing around differentiating, not trying to, but actually differentiating the results that they come up with and the visualizations and all this stuff is really great. And they deserve to get credit for that because I just don’t see that kind of ongoing innovation in the larger platforms as they chase after other things that don’t make our search experience better. So anyway, mahalo says, hey, we’re getting spammed. The results are crappy. And if you give a human being the opportunity to create a result for a particular search like hotel in Hawaii or whatever, that they will come up with better results. And so they’re hiring a bunch of people and the people are creating a bunch of results. And if you search one of those 10,000 terms. Search terms in the near term, although I don’t know how long it’ll take them to get those 10,000 built out, you’ll get a better result because it’ll have been human driven as opposed to machine driven. There you go.

[00:17:39] Craig Syverson
There you go. What else?

[00:17:41] David Hornik
So I’m at this thing, this d. All things digital conference, hanging out with Martha Stewart. She didn’t know we were hanging out.

[00:17:52] Craig Syverson
Yeah, yeah, but you were approximate.

[00:17:54] David Hornik
She was there.

[00:17:55] Craig Syverson
Yep.

[00:17:55] David Hornik
Hanging out with people and. Oh, and. And George Lucas. How awesome is that? You know what? If I can go hang out with George with In a crowd of people that includes George Lucas and Martin Stewart, I’m happy. I’m just a happy man. Because I think it is at least partially a men versus women thing, but not entirely. I’m not suggesting it’s entirely, but man, geeky men worship the ground on which George Lucas walks. And frankly, he deserves it. I certainly have a vivid recollection of seeing that very first Star wars movie and then every Star wars movie thereafter. And not to mention the Star wars cards that we, my brother and I collected and the Star Wars. I mean, there’s still. There’s in fact a box in my. I wonder if he took it back. But there was a box in my garage that was all of our Star wars characters that Josh somehow claims are his. I don’t know how he. Why he thinks that they’re his.

[00:18:54] Craig Syverson
Yeah, but.

[00:18:55] David Hornik
Oh, no, the stow this. I think his argument was they were always mine.

[00:19:00] Craig Syverson
Oh, like what is rewriting history approach?

[00:19:03] David Hornik
They were always mine. Oh, yeah? Really? The ones I got for Hanukkah, the ones I got for my birthday, those were always yours, apparently, because he has them all. I had that great ceramic Darth Vader light that I got in the. In the school raffle.

[00:19:17] Craig Syverson
Huh.

[00:19:18] David Hornik
How do you like that?

[00:19:19] Craig Syverson
That’s. That’s pretty awesome.

[00:19:21] David Hornik
Awesome. So then there’s George Lucas. And by the way, do you know how much money the combined Star wars properties have made? I read this recently. So, George, my apologies if this isn’t right, but I read from credit credible news sources how much money the combined Star wars properties have made over time. Any guesses?

[00:19:40] Craig Syverson
You know, actually, we talked about this very thing last night on this Week in Media. Our whole. Our whole show was Star wars and the influence of Star wars on new media.

[00:19:49] David Hornik
Unbelievable. This is what I’m saying.

[00:19:50] Craig Syverson
But John did the research. He has the number. I forgot it already, but it was a big number.

[00:19:55] David Hornik
Lots of comments. $22 billion was the number I heard. Yeah, $22 billion. Actually. You know, it’s funny because in his talk, George Lucas said at one point, sort of offhandedly, well, you know, you guys run big companies. It’s not like I’m making a billion dollars a year or something. Yes, he is. Liar. You’re making a billion dollars a year, my friend. And it’s all yours. Yours.

[00:20:23] Craig Syverson
It’s a combined thing. There’s a bunch of companies that he owns.

[00:20:27] David Hornik
Maybe Industrial Light and Magic.

[00:20:29] Craig Syverson
Skywalker Sound.

[00:20:30] David Hornik
Skywalker Sound. One of the greatest field trips I ever went on was I was taking a class at Stanford called Physics of Music. The Physics of Music, which was awesome.

[00:20:42] Craig Syverson
You were taking the class?

[00:20:43] David Hornik
Yeah.

[00:20:44] Craig Syverson
Okay. You weren’t teaching. I was getting.

[00:20:45] David Hornik
No, no. I taught a separate one called technology and musical aesthetics Different. This was the physics of music. And so this is, you know, back in. Whenever in the late 80s and we took a field trip to Skywalker Ranch.

[00:20:59] Craig Syverson
Yes.

[00:21:00] David Hornik
And. And Ben Burt. And they like. And all the sound designers did this presentation in. In the main theater in Skywalker Ranch. You know, the. The field trip that we took to Dolby Labs was awesome, but not that awesome. Holy cow. That was so great. That was worth the. Whatever, $13,000 in tuition right there.

[00:21:21] Craig Syverson
Yes. This is a beautiful. It’s a beautiful.

[00:21:22] David Hornik
It was so cheap back then. Imagine that. Imagine only paying 13,000 bucks to go to college when our children go to college for a whole year. It’ll be really ugly.

[00:21:30] Craig Syverson
It’s. Yeah. Uglier for you.

[00:21:33] David Hornik
Yeah, right, exactly. The fact that I have a five year old, that’s. That’s not. That’s a trend. That’s against my interest.

[00:21:39] Craig Syverson
Yeah. Yes.

[00:21:40] David Hornik
But anyway, so George Lucas. Oh, yeah. So where were we?

[00:21:42] Craig Syverson
Oh, so you’re hanging out with George.

[00:21:44] David Hornik
Lucas there and whatever and Jill Sobule, who I don’t know if you know Jill Sobule’s music, but if you don’t, you got to go to Jill Sobule. S O B U L E dot com. She’s just great. She’s just incredibly fun. She sings really interesting, clever songs and I’ve. And she’s gone to TED for a number years and she was, she sang at D this year and so I was hanging out with Jill, which is always incredibly fun. I shamelessly made Jill watch my son’s latest music video. I know you stop that. She enjoyed it. See, this is how nice Jill. So Buell is. She pretended to enjoy it.

[00:22:20] Craig Syverson
Yeah, she.

[00:22:20] David Hornik
She said, oh, look at him.

[00:22:23] Craig Syverson
Wow.

[00:22:24] David Hornik
You know, whatever. By the way, have I mentioned that you can now go to JulianHornick.com and check out all of his latest.

[00:22:29] Craig Syverson
His latest music videos?

[00:22:30] David Hornik
You know, actually, this is interesting. So TypeP6 supports TypePad. Yes, I am on the board of 6. Part 6 supports TypePad service now has a thing called Pages that says you can set. Create essentially static pages as opposed to blog pages. So you can establish and create a particular page because, you know, look, sometimes you want this reverse chronological blog kind of experience, but sometimes you want just a page so we click through, there it is. Right. In fact, it would have made it easier for my website for my conference if I had just created these static pages. But anyway, Julian decided to create his new Julian hornick.com and was so psyched to have pages because then he could, okay, just put up a page with videos, put up a page with this, here’s my music, whatever.

[00:23:12] Craig Syverson
So.

[00:23:13] David Hornik
So it’s very cool. So I’m psyched about that. And it makes me think back to sort of this Homestead, right? The early Homestead created the earliest, best product that was, you know, that was sort of designed to do better things than Tripod and these early page makers. And a lot of it was about this, creating better pages for restaurants and haircutters and whatever else. So now just web pages.

[00:23:35] Craig Syverson
Not blogs.

[00:23:36] David Hornik
Yeah, not blogs, just web pages. And now my apologies to Homestead, but it’s part of sort of building into TypePad the capacity to Create that. And it works great. And it’s, you know, so it’s different.

[00:23:45] Craig Syverson
Than a permalink in that the pages show up on the homepage as.

[00:23:48] David Hornik
No, no, it’s just that. It’s just if you wanted to, you could create a link to a separate blog that you never updated and therefore it wouldn’t change. Right. On the other hand, this is about creating a single page that’s intended to be static and therefore you can format as a static page, etc. It’s just a different paradigm than the blog paradigm, which is what obviously TypePad was built on. But people want the flexibility to have both. So now you got both. And you can check it out@julianhornick.com all right.

[00:24:17] Craig Syverson
And then did you hang out with Steve and Bill?

[00:24:20] David Hornik
So Steve and Bill were there. I actually wanted to go chat with, with both of them. But you know, oddly enough they were swapped with people chatting and chasing people and they didn’t recognize, they didn’t say, you know, well, hey, wait a second, there’s David. You know, he should come on over. They were distracted, so I gotta tell you, they were, they were so great. So I mean, I can’t understate the degree to which they were great on stage together. It just worked. I mean, Walt and Kara must have been so happy after that conversation. And they started it with this really great montage of the two of them, how they, when they’d appeared together before. And the very first thing they showed was just awesome. I hope it makes its way. Actually probably is on. So, Karen, Walt have this new website associated with the conference. It’s called All Things D. So you can go to allthingsd.com and I hope that they put this video up because the video was the, I think he called it the Software Dating Game. And it was Steve Jobs. He must have been, I don’t know, 18, maybe 20. Oh, maybe it was the Macintosh Dating Game. But anyways, you know, I want to introduce to you the contestants for the Dating Game, their software creators. Which one will we choose for the Macintosh to drive the software? And it was like an 18 year old bill Gates and then Mitch Kapor was there from lotus and the VisiCalc founder, you know, and the three. And they all like. And you know, I was like, well, tell me contestant number three, Bill Gates. You know, what can you provide for the Apple platform? And then Bill says, you know, well, we’ve got this great, you know, floating point BASIC or whatever, you know, whatever he said. I can’t remember the specific, but it was just such a great historical document. And then they went through the rest, and then they brought the two of them out there to talk about. Just sort of talk about the history of the two companies. And the. And of course, the history of Apple and Microsoft, in many ways are a huge piece of the history of computers and personal computers. And it was just fascinating to hear. And Bill Gates is just a genius. That man is. He’s just such a brilliant man, however you feel about whatever he’s done, which, by the way, I don’t know how you can feel anything but incredible gratitude for the fact that the operating system made it possible for standardization across. But whatever. I’m putting that aside. He was recounting conversations 30 years ago as if they happened yesterday. He was discussing the people that were in these conversations in this sort of.

[00:26:50] Craig Syverson
Vivid way, like, scary memory kind of thing.

[00:26:53] David Hornik
It just was amazing and really wonderful to watch. And he was incredibly gracious to Jobs and about the things that those guys had done, right? And the things that. And then there was this really funny story, I think it was about BASIC, where the waz had the Gates start telling about it, right? Gates says, you know, like, well, the thing is that they had this basic, but we had this floating point basic, whatever. And Jobs cuts him off and stops, stop, stop. That’s not. Let me tell it better. So he says, you know, so then, you know, Jobs says, well, so this is the thing was. Had written this basic. It was really incredible. BASIC was like the best Basic out there. It had all these features that on the other basics had. He’d written it out on it by hand on a pad of paper, you know, and. And. But I kept, you know, but no, Jobs does. But we kept on begging him to do floating point because he didn’t have floating point. It was fixed point basic. And we kept on begging. And Walt Mossberg said, so who were the we? Who are the we? And Jobs said, okay, me. I kept on. I kept on begging him, but he couldn’t, you know, he didn’t do it. And so, you know, Microsoft had this thing, and so we went to Gates, and So we paid 35,000 bucks, right? 35,000 bucks for floating point basis so we could put it in the Apple II or whatever. So it was stuff like that that was just unbelievable. And then in the very end, maybe it was the last question from Mossberger. Question was, you guys have watched each other over the last 30 years, and so what do you appreciate about each other, right? So Gates says, well, look, Steve Jobs. Steve has the Best sense of taste of anyone. He just, he said we would have these conversations and I would look at them as a product and engineering question and Steve would say, no, no, no, you know, from a consumer standpoint, from the experience and the, it should be this. And he was right. And he just has this incredible sense of taste and style and consumer understanding. And I really envy that, which is incredibly gracious. And so then you say, okay, well now what’s Jobs going to say? And Jobs says, you know, Bill has always had this incredible ability to partner across huge sets of, across the network and across the industry to drive demand and value back to Microsoft. That has been unbelievably valuable. And I envy that.

[00:29:16] Craig Syverson
Right.

[00:29:16] David Hornik
You know, I work alone is of course, you know, absolutely right. Look at the challenge that Apple has had versus Microsoft in that respect. It really, I mean, it was almost touching. I mean, at one point Jobs quoted a Beatles song, I wish I could remember the quote. And it was, it might as well have been a love letter. I mean, it was like, but it didn’t, it wasn’t as if it was, oh my God, this is like totally staged. Whatever. It was like, it was this very genuine appreciation for what the two of them had done. And, and it was just the highlight of the conference by an order of magnitude. It really was just incredibly wonderful. Now there was this one brief moment, everybody wanted a fight, which I think was completely wrong.

[00:29:56] Craig Syverson
Right?

[00:29:56] David Hornik
And luckily that’s not what we get.

[00:29:58] Craig Syverson
Right.

[00:29:58] David Hornik
But at one point Jobs says to, says to Gates, or no, he’s not, he’s answering a question to Kara Walt. And he says, oh, you know, these PC Mac commercials, you know, they’re good hearted, they’re good nature. They’re, they’re supposed to be, you’re supposed to like PC. You’re supposed to, they’re just supposed to be poking good natured fun. And you see, you see Gates, his face, and he gives this look like, I don’t know about that. Like, I really don’t appreciate these, these ads.

[00:30:24] Craig Syverson
Gates said, I think the PC guy’s mother loves him.

[00:30:27] David Hornik
Something, right? Exactly, exactly. And it was sort of because Kara was saying, you know, look, I don’t like, I don’t like the Mac guy. I like the PC guy. Sure, the PC guy’s more, you know, more endearing or whatever that Mac guy, you know, which started this whole conversation. But it was just very funny that for, you know, Jobs to go, oh, no, no, no, it was supposed to be. It’s like, you know, we’re being nice. It’s a nice thing. And Gates kind of like, I don’t think so. That’s. Those commercials are not nice. So anyway, that was awesome.

[00:30:54] Craig Syverson
Yeah, awesome. We’re done with our show.

[00:30:57] David Hornik
We’re done.

[00:30:57] Craig Syverson
We’re out. We’re keeping it lean and mean.

[00:31:01] David Hornik
All right, well, good.

[00:31:03] Craig Syverson
But we’re going to do dodgeball next show.

[00:31:06] David Hornik
Yes, next week. Is that next Friday?

[00:31:08] Craig Syverson
But we’ll put out the show at the normal time since in our normal schedule. I’ll be out of town, you’ll be out.

[00:31:13] David Hornik
All right.

[00:31:14] Craig Syverson
But we’ll get the dodgeball show in.

[00:31:15] David Hornik
But, yeah.

[00:31:15] Craig Syverson
So just labor versus Capital.

[00:31:17] David Hornik
Exactly. Some brief clarification for those of you going, what are they talking about?

[00:31:21] Craig Syverson
Not. Not the company.

[00:31:22] David Hornik
We’re having a real thing. I had a conversation with my buddy Hunter Walk, who is over at YouTube, Google, and Hunter and I have these ridiculous breakfasts where we, you know, talk about them. Here’s an absurd idea. And one of the absurd ideas was we should have a dodgeball game. And Hunter said, yeah, labor versus capital. We’ll have the entrepreneurs versus the VCs in dodgeball. And I said, cool. Let’s, you know, like, why don’t we do that? So there’s this crazy place in San Mateo or something that has trampolines. Dodgeball court.

[00:31:54] Craig Syverson
Trampolines.

[00:31:55] David Hornik
Trampolines.

[00:31:55] Craig Syverson
Oh, I didn’t know about that part.

[00:31:56] David Hornik
Bounce around and throw dodgeball. So we’re having. So we are signed up, I don’t know, 30 or 40 VCs and 30 or 40 entrepreneurs. And we’re going to have labor.

[00:32:04] Craig Syverson
I’m labor.

[00:32:05] David Hornik
All right. Labor. The labor. And we’re going to have a dodgeball game. I need to get my, like, you know, Kareem Abdul Jabbar glasses. I was wondering about the security glass.

[00:32:13] Craig Syverson
No, these are big balls. They’re not going to take your eye out.

[00:32:18] David Hornik
It’s going to be so fun. So we’re going to do. We’re going to do our show from dodgeball and have conversations with. Maybe we should split the show into, you know, labor conversations versus capital Conversations. Conversations. Maybe ask each other, you know, see if we can have that same kind of Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, warm, fuzzy thing.

[00:32:33] Craig Syverson
Yeah, right. You should probably have a mic guard on. If you take your microphone out on this.

[00:32:37] David Hornik
How’s it going?

[00:32:40] Craig Syverson
Darn it. Well, if anyone’s going to wwdc, I’ll be speaking there on Tuesday morning on the media track, giving a talk on video production and then the whole thing. So that’s going to be the Big Apple Love Fest next week yet again.

[00:32:55] David Hornik
What are they in? Oh, we can’t go into it. I can’t wait to see what they announce.

[00:32:59] Craig Syverson
Of course, I don’t think it’s gonna be anything.

[00:33:01] David Hornik
Nothing, nothing big. Someone was. Someone was suggesting they were gonna announce a smaller laptop that had no hard drive, just solid state memory. How awesome would that mean?

[00:33:11] Craig Syverson
Like it syncs up with your Trio and.

[00:33:13] David Hornik
Oh, please. Oh my God. I can’t believe you didn’t ask me about that.

[00:33:16] Craig Syverson
I didn’t. I was a little.

[00:33:18] David Hornik
All right. I don’t want to be mean.

[00:33:21] Craig Syverson
No, no, you don’t have to be.

[00:33:23] David Hornik
Franklin Planner.

[00:33:24] Craig Syverson
Yeah, well, it’s all I’m saying.

[00:33:27] David Hornik
Franklin Planner.

[00:33:28] Craig Syverson
It’s almost. It’s one of those things. My wife and I were looking at this. It makes you scratch your head so much. It’s like, is there a hidden genius here that I’m missing?

[00:33:37] David Hornik
So how long will it be hidden?

[00:33:39] Craig Syverson
This.

[00:33:41] David Hornik
I played with it. I played with it. By the way, I’m a TRIO user. I’m a fanatical TRIO user. I have good link on my Trio for syncing my email. Good link is a very well used application. Doesn’t work.

[00:33:56] Craig Syverson
I was wondering about that. That was my one.

[00:33:57] David Hornik
They said, well, we’re leaving it to good to do the integration.

[00:34:00] Craig Syverson
What?

[00:34:01] David Hornik
What for? Come on now, people.

[00:34:05] Craig Syverson
How many are gonna.

[00:34:06] David Hornik
But so anyway. But yes. No, not like that. Like a really full function, really awesome lightweight MacBook with solid state memory which would make it smaller and thinner and lighter and all that stuff.

[00:34:18] Craig Syverson
So I can kind of see it in the. In a. In the Mac platform. That would make sense. Yeah, because then you’d have that and perhaps a desktop or if those exist anymore.

[00:34:26] David Hornik
Yeah, no, it would be the thing you. I mean, look, I’d get one to travel with. It would be awesome, right? Awesome.

[00:34:32] Craig Syverson
Yes. All right.

[00:34:35] David Hornik
Look at you. Worldwide Developer conference and you’re going to speak.

[00:34:38] Craig Syverson
Shoot.

[00:34:38] David Hornik
Nice.

[00:34:39] Craig Syverson
Yeah, I know. It’ll be fun.

[00:34:41] David Hornik
I’ll come see that. Yeah, I’ll come down, say hello, I think.

[00:34:44] Craig Syverson
And Steve gives his keynote on Monday.

[00:34:47] David Hornik
I’ll be waiting.

[00:34:48] Craig Syverson
Yes, sir.

[00:34:48] David Hornik
I think that Apple bought Bebo. Really? No, I’m kidding. But how would that be by anybody?

[00:34:56] Craig Syverson
They buy software.

[00:34:57] David Hornik
They don’t buy anything. That’s not what they do.

[00:34:59] Craig Syverson
They build it. But you know, they buy software companies though.

[00:35:02] David Hornik
They’re crazy not buying Parallels. How have they not bought Parallels yet? Parallels is about to come up with parallels 3.0. I just saw this. Really cool. You can basically. So if you get a document, you can explain which application in which OS to open. So you click on a Word document and say, oh, always open that in Windows. Click on a PDF and say, oh, always open that in Preview and Mac. How cool is that? That’s cool.

[00:35:26] Craig Syverson
That’s cool. If you want to contaminate your Mac with Windows.

[00:35:30] David Hornik
I’m just saying that they need to buy that. It is the thing that’s driving their increased market share.

[00:35:36] Craig Syverson
Yeah, I would agree.

[00:35:38] David Hornik
So much for our show being over.

[00:35:40] Craig Syverson
I know.

[00:35:40] David Hornik
There’s just too much to talk about.

[00:35:42] Craig Syverson
It goes on and on. All right, thanks, Cash Fly for providing our bandwidth. As always. What were you saying?

[00:35:48] David Hornik
See that? Dodgeball.

[00:35:49] Craig Syverson
Yes.

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